Bishop of Zaria Diocese (Anglican Communion), Rt Rev Abiodun Ogunyemi, recently prophesied that though Governor Nasir el-Rufai was being groomed to be Nigeria’s President, he would never be president. He tells GODWIN ISENYO about the controversy over state government’s plan to demolish a 110-year old church and his view of the regime of the President, Major General Muhammadu Buhari (retd.)
Rt Rev Abiodun Ogunyemi
You recently said the Governor of Kaduna State, Nasir el-Rufai, was being prepared to contest for the Presidency in 2023, what made you so sure of this?
I am a proud Anglican bishop. When a bishop is consecrated, he is told: ‘Today, we consecrate you as a priest and a prophet.’ The office of the bishop is not only priestly; it is also a prophetic office. I don’t know if some bishops know that but I know it. Over the years, since I became a bishop, God has spoken through me.
People may not take what I say seriously but they come to pass. Let me give you one example. When I was a pastor many years ago, back in the 1990s, in Zaria at St Andrews Church, one night, God woke me up and said: ‘Go and tell the church that M.K.O. Abiola will never be the President of Nigeria.’ At the time, the Social Democratic Party just had its convention in Jos, Plateau State. But God said, ‘Tell your church that M.K.O. Abiola will never be the President of Nigeria, even for only one minute; I will stop him.’
I told the church and some members were not happy because they were members of the SDP. But I said it was God who told me and that I didn’t have anything to do with it (prophecy). Eventually, you know what happened, how the election was annulled.
In 2010 when Nigeria, God told me there would be a political earthquake in Nigeria that would sweep across the whole country and that nothing would stop it, except God Himself. By the end of that year, there was Boko Haram. I was preaching at a church in Samaru and God told me that Muhammadu Buhari and el-Rufai would return to power but some people didn’t want him (el-Rufai) in the state. I told the church that Buhari and el-Rufai would come back and that no votes could stop them and it came to pass.
I was not speaking for myself when I said there was a plan to make Governor Nasir el-Rufai the next Nigerian President but it would never happen. That’s what God told me. He (el-Rufai) should stop wasting his time. He will never be president.
You sound so sure; what if it doesn’t come to pass?
God told me; it has nothing to do with me. I just gave you some examples and there are others. People always fight me on matters like this. It never bothers me. When Goodluck Jonathan was the President, God told me he was never the answer to Nigeria’s problems. He was actually a problem. God said, ‘Jonathan is King Saul who will fail.’ So, this one (prophecy) has nothing to do with me. It’s what God told me. El-Rufai should forget about the 2023 presidency.
You chided the Archbishop of the Kaduna Province of the Anglican Diocese, Buba Lamido, for apologising to el-Rufai recently over the planned demolition of St George Anglican Church, the second oldest church in the North. Have you received any threats since then?
I have received some threats, through phone calls from people. Some people are very happy with my response while some are not. I have received (threats), particularly from the Interfaith Dialogue, who said they were from the governor’s office. They came here twice to threaten me. They also went to my chancellor in Kaduna to issues threats. But we have taken it lightly because it is expected that when people want to do something evil and you stand against it, they will react.
I heard about a newspaper report (not Punch), which I refused to react to because the writer of the article didn’t address the real issue. He was addressing the issue of politics but didn’t address the issue of land. Who owns the land? Why did the government want to take our land? Why did the governor not also go to Kaduna and demolish the Central Mosque and the property there? He won’t try it. Why is he focusing on the church?
There was a meeting in Kano called by Bishop Buba Lamido. They invited me but I did not attend because God had warned me not to go. It was like a ploy to trap me – to either ambush me or kill me. That was what God told me and it was confirmed by some people. The secretary at that meeting, Bishop of Dutse, Jigawa State, told me that Bishop Lamido said I was like Ibrahim El-Zakzaky and that the way the governor dealt with El-Zakzaky, he would deal with me. I see that as a threat to my life. I took it lightly because I was not fighting the government. That was why I wrote my letter to the public. I am not fighting government. I am fighting for our property. I am fighting for our rights. I have no reason to fight the government.
The other threat that I have received, which you must know about, is that some weeks ago, we had a programme at our national church in Abuja and the Primate (that is the head) of the church and other officers of the church told me about the outcome of a visit to the governor’s office. I was invited to be part of the visit but I refused to go. The Primate told me that the governor was going to write me a letter. I have not received any letter yet. It is to say that I am a security threat to Kaduna State. (It was said) that if the governor should write that letter, the church would be forced to transfer me from Zaria to another place. That’s a threat to my life and my ministry.
I mean, is it evil or a sin to defend what belongs to you, and stand against it when a governor wants to go wrong? He told me that the governor was going to write a letter to declare me a security risk. I have kept quiet on it because I am expecting the letter. Maybe it’s a lie. Maybe someone lied to the Primate that the governor was going to write a letter to me.
When the Primate told me that, I didn’t tell anybody. I just kept it to myself and only sent messages to my friends who prayed for me. But something is telling me now that I should not keep quiet even though I have not received the letter yet. I am not a threat to anybody and I am not El-Zakzaky. I am a bishop and one of my mandates is to protect the territorial integrity of the diocese that God has placed me to oversee and fight for what belongs to us. So, would I keep quiet when a letter was written to us that they would demolish our church? No. I could not keep quiet.
You seem very angry about the planned demolition of the 110-year-old St George Cathedral, Sabon-Gari Zaria; and another alleged plan to demolish the Sabongari property of the church, what is the situation now?
It is the second oldest church in northern Nigeria. The second thing that came out of the Abuja meeting was that the governor said he was not going to do anything to the church again but that he was still going to demolish our property. That was why I made a public statement. The governor has no right to tamper with our property. Can he go to Kaduna and demolish the Central Mosque and its property? The whole property (church and market land) belongs to us (church). The Certificate of Occupancy is in the governor’s office. He knows that. It’s with the Kaduna State Urban and Property Development Agency. Ex-governor Namadi Sambo knew about it. They know that the whole land is ours. It is for the Anglican Communion.
So, that’s the update. We are waiting for the governor. We don’t know what he has in mind. But I have told him (governor) that nobody can tamper with our property or land because it belongs to God. That land was bought by our forefathers in the late 1800. The first church was put there in 1808. How can he come to demolish it? Is he the first governor (here)? The first C of O was issued by Sir Kashim Ibrahim, former governor of the Northern State. That’s why I am angry.
What is the true story behind the planned demolitions? Why did the government want to demolish them?
Honestly, I don’t know what exactly he (el-Rufai) has in mind.
He said he wanted to build a new market at Sabon Gari. If he wants to rebuild a market, he should not forget that the market land belongs to the church. I am not against him building a new market. What is done in other places is that when a government wants to build a market, they go to a virgin land and build a new market there. The people matter because that’s their only source of livelihood. You don’t just come and demolish things.
Christians in Kaduna believe the governor is using the issue to test the waters and that once he succeeds in tampering with the church and its property, no other church in Kaduna State is safe. That’s why the state chapter of the Christian Association of Nigeria took it up. CAN knows that once the governor succeeds in doing this (demolition), other churches will be at risk. That is why the matter is creating problems. And that is why the governor should leave the church alone. The matter will cause problems if the governor goes ahead with it. Why is he focusing on the church? Why can’t he go and demolish the Central Mosque in Kaduna and see what will happen?
I wrote a personal letter to him which he refused to reply. I reminded him about what Sambo said about the land. Even ex-governor Mukhtar Yero was briefly involved in the (land) matter. If anything should go, it should be the market. The governor should give us back our land and not talk about demolishing any part of our property. I have told him and I am speaking as a servant of God – if he (el-Rufai) tampers with our property, he should expect the wrath of God because it’s God’s land. Leaders are careful when dealing with the issue of religion. Once they (people) don’t cause any trouble, leave them alone to practise their religion.
What do you think is responsible for this lack of trust between the governor and Christians in the state?
Christians have a suspicion that the governor has a plan to deal with the church. That’s why he wants to tamper with our church to test the waters. He may have other plans. If the governor wants Christians to trust him, he should leave the church alone. We are not fighting him. We prayed for him. Let me tell you the truth. I have seen some road constructions in Zaria and we are happy about that. That’s part of governance. Once he concentrates on governing the state, nobody will fight him but if he wants to come and tamper with God’s property, we won’t keep quiet.
When Bishop Lamido apologised to the governor and you and others condemned him, it gave the impression that the church was divided, how would you react to that?
You see, when the governor said nobody would tamper with the church, everybody was happy because the Christian community in the whole country was disturbed. I went for a meeting in Asaba, Delta State, and they were congratulating me. Let me tell you what happened. Bishop Lamido came to me in Asaba and told me that the governor was unhappy. He said I should follow him to Government House to beg the governor. I told him to give me time to pray over it because I didn’t want to react until I had prayed and heard from God.
The following day, he came to me and I said, ‘No, I’m not going with you to Government House because prophets don’t apologise to kings; it’s the kings that apologise to prophets except if the prophet committed a civil or criminal offence.’ We have not committed any offence. We have freedom to protest against what is wrong. So, that was why he went to the Government House.
Another bishop (I don’t want to mention his name) told me that the night before we went to Asaba, somebody called him from England, UK and said the governor was not happy. At that point, I knew it was Bishop Idowu Fearon, who was behind the idea of going to the Government House to beg the governor. Why? Bishop Fearon and the governor are very close.
Secondly, the people that came to my office to harass me were from Interfaith Dialogue, which Bishop Fearon is in charge of in Kaduna State. So, I knew that Bishop Fearon was behind the visit. He used to be our former bishop and I knew him.
God has told me that I must defend our property. If I keep quiet and allow someone to tamper with it, God will hold me responsible because that is my mandate. It’s like a president allowing part of their country to be taken away. That president is in trouble.
Some people even suggested that he might have been paid by the governor, do you agree with such people?
I don’t know. I didn’t follow them to the Government House. Things may happen in secret. Let me tell you something. We had a meeting at the Jakaranda Farm in Kaduna last year. Many bishops in the North were in attendance. A bishop brought in a Muslim governorship candidate who came with money to buy some of the bishops there so they could campaign for him. I was the only bishop that challenged the bishop and told him that it was an insult to the men of God because apart from distributing money, the same bishop was castigating Governor el-Rufai before all the bishops. He said we should not vote for Governor El-Rufai and I said ‘no’. I told him he had no right to tell us (bishops) that because we were not politicians. I told him that as men of God, we shouldn’t belong to any political party. We support all political parties. We asked our members to join any party they wanted based on what God told them (their convictions).
How would you rate the performance of the retired Major General Muhammadu Buhari regime as regards the economy, security and anti-corruption – the three areas he promised to focus on?
Dr Oby Ezekwesili once said something that registered in my memory. You know what she said of the Muhammadu Buhari-led government? She said the government “is irredeemably incompetent”. That’s my summary of this government. How could you make a lawyer the Minister of Works and Housing? No sane country does that. The US that we are copying their style of government won’t do that. It won’t work. You made a medical doctor the Minister of Labour and Productivity. It will never work. Then, you took someone who you were not sure whether he had a school certificate or not and made him the president over a complex nation like Nigeria and think things would work. A miracle will not happen. I am not cursing the country.
In a sane country, to get a leader, one of the first things they do is to test the IQ (intelligence quotient) to be sure the leader is very intelligent. I watched former President Barrack Obama when he was in power in the US. Sometimes, they sat in a Federal Executive Council meeting for over 15 hours, having a brainstorming session to move the country forward.
But in Nigeria, we put people who are not competent in office. How do you expect things to work? Look at the one in the Ministry of Information; he’s the worst minister in Nigeria.
Years ago, when I was a student at the University of Ibadan, the Nigerian Institute of Social and Economic Research wrote a paper. It was written by its director-general, Prof Dotun Philips, about Gen. Ibrahim Babangida’s austerity programme. The man advised the government not to go ahead with it but the government ignored that report. So I asked, why did you establish the institute if you would not use its research works? I thought, these are intelligent people telling you what will happen and you are ignoring them. You are killing the system and you want the economy to grow. There is insecurity and you want foreign investors to come? They hear that you want to pass hate speech bill, and you think foreign investors will come to a country where there is such a bill.
That’s the reintroduction of Decree 4 passed by Buhari many years ago. Buhari wants to bring back his Decree 4 to silence Nigerians like me who are talking. That’s the reason. No investor will come. Forget about economic growth. It won’t happen like a miracle. It happens through careful planning. People talk, you lock them up and you think investors will come. The reason why America is the largest economy in the world is because of freedom of speech, freedom of association. So, people go there because they know they are allowed to practise their faith but here once you don’t belong to a particular faith, you are persecuted. Yet, they want people to come.
Here in the north, you are driving people away and you want to improve the economy. I think the leaders in the northern states should sit down and think. Buhari should sit down and think. You can never improve economy when people are being killed. In fact, when they said they wanted to drive away Igbo people from Lagos, I said it was a foolish decision. Once you do that, you kill Lagos because studies show that in terms of commerce, they are in charge there. So, if you want to improve the economy of Kaduna State, stop driving away people in the name of religion or politics.
On fighting corruption, I must commend Buhari. At least, he has done better than other Nigeria leaders. But the truth must be said. Why is it that it’s mainly members of the opposition that are being prosecuted? If you want to fight corruption, it is not only those stealing money that you fight.
For me, the greatest problem of Nigeria and Africa is not corruption but tribalism (ethnicity) because when they get to power, they surround themselves with people of their tribe. That is why for me, the most corrupt leader in Nigeria is Muhammadu Buhari. Surrounding himself with people of your tribe and religion is the highest form of corruption.
So you are not impressed by the Social Media and Hate Speech Bills before the National Assembly…
Normally, the National Assembly should kick those bills out but I don’t trust its members. Any man serving the country and collecting up to N5m per month has a problem in his head. Its wickedness in a country that cannot adequately pay N30,000 minimum wage. Any man whose mind has been affected by money cannot think properly.
In Nigeria, when they have their Federal Executive Council meetings in Abuja on Wednesdays, they are there for two or three hours and award contracts. That’s all they do. For me, those bills should not see the light of day. We have enough laws that cover those areas (they claim to be concerned about). They are unnecessary for the country. If they should pass those laws, Nigerians should prepare for war because they will use it to oppress Nigerians. Nigerians should fight against those bills. For members of the National Assembly, if they should pass those bills, they should forget about their offices because it shows they are not worthy of them. These bills are against democracy, rule of law and the fundamental human rights of people.
Unfortunately, the men of God who are supposed to speak up won’t speak up. That’s the problem. Imagine all general overseers, archbishops, bishops, sheikhs, and Imams marching to the National Assembly with camp beds and saying until you reduce your salaries and allowances, we are not leaving here. By the time we stay there for three days, they will reduce them. Unfortunately, everybody is afraid. General overseers, bishops, etc. are afraid. We religious leaders are the problem of this country for keeping quiet when there is oppression. Leah Sharibu is still in captivity and the church is keeping quiet.
What do you think about the incarceration of people like Omoyele Sowore, El-Zakzaky, and Col. Sambo Dasuki (retd.), whom courts granted bail but were not released?
We are not practising democracy at all. I don’t believe what is happening now. We are wasting our time. Unfortunately, we cannot even trust the judiciary. If the highest court in the land could say there was nothing wrong if Buhari did not show his school certificate, then, something is fundamentally wrong. After that judgment, I became afraid. A day is coming when the same evildoers will be put in prison. That time, they will ask for mercy but they will not get it.
What advice do you have for the Buhari regime?
Tell me what these civilians have done since 1999. Go to Lagos, most of the bridges were built by the military. I like what Prof Wole Soyinka said about professors rigging elections for politicians and sending away students for examination malpractice. What type of country is that?
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